Vans are better than SUVs

"Zibodiz" (zibodiz1) 12/19/2016 at 00:21 • Filed to: None

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Just sayin’

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 00:29

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Zibodiz > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 12/19/2016 at 00:36

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If I could afford one of those, I wouldn’t have the Aerostar lol. 4x4 real vans are hard to come by.

HammerheadFistpunch > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 01:05

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Tires?

Zibodiz > HammerheadFistpunch 12/19/2016 at 01:37

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The Escape has 4 relatively new all-season A/Ts. The Aerostar has two of the cheapest available Walmart specials on the front, a different generic on one side of the rear, and a nearly-bald summer tire on the other side.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 01:58

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agreed

Gerry197 > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 04:33

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As with RC cars, it’s all in the tires.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 08:19

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The aerostar’s slower, non-spinny approach looks like it has a lot to do with it. It also looks like ground clearance plays a part.

Hateful Mate > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 09:27

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Actually those are based on a regular long wheel base 2wd, so the base vehicle is cheap enough. Sending it to Arctic Trucks for the rebuild would be pricey though. They’re only open in Europe at the moment. If you get rich one day, they even do a 6 wheeled version! The econolines true purpose is actually as tourbusses on iceland.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 09:39

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That’s impressive. I will say this: The Aerostar did surprise me a bit, although I can see where it would do well. The Escape didn’t surprise me. Although don’t Escapes have a locking central diff? Did you have that engaged?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Hateful Mate 12/19/2016 at 09:59

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Majestic tour busses - fixed it for you

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 10:06

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So since Hammerhead asked the obvious tire question (and it didn’t help any) let’s talk about a few other things.

Aerostar has a shit load more weight on that front axle. Transmission gearing is going to play a whole lot into getting up a hill in the snow.

And most importantly - that’s no SUV. It’s a crossover. While it has a decent AWD system, it’s no full frame SUV with legit truck 4x4.

Hateful Mate > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/19/2016 at 10:09

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Thank you, kind sir, for giving me space. It appears I was missing one.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Hateful Mate 12/19/2016 at 10:11

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haha, these are the most amazing creations 100% would winter drive.

and 100 more > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/19/2016 at 10:24

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Aerostar is RWD tho, which i think is the big difference, considering they’re going uphill.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > and 100 more 12/19/2016 at 10:35

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OOO I was thinking they were FWD for some reason.

and 100 more > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/19/2016 at 10:39

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You would think!

I only know they’re RWD because my mom’s got stuck in soft sand one day.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > and 100 more 12/19/2016 at 10:41

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I just had to look it up, came in RWD and AWD.

and 100 more > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/19/2016 at 10:47

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Didn’t know there was an AWD version. Any info what the drivetrain was based on/shared with?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > and 100 more 12/19/2016 at 10:50

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This is what Wiki says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Aerostar#All-wheel_drive_.28E-4WD.29_Aerostar_.281990.E2.80.931997.29

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > and 100 more 12/19/2016 at 13:11

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So what you’re saying is I could drift an Aerostar

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Zibodiz 12/19/2016 at 13:14

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Look like the little SUV wouldn’t make a very good Escape vehicle

Zibodiz > Gerry197 12/20/2016 at 00:25

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I doubt it; the Aerostar has all-season highway tires, and the Escape has all-season all-terrain tires with a lot more tread left.

Zibodiz > and 100 more 12/20/2016 at 00:26

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Exactly; it’s sitting on an Explorer chassis.

Zibodiz > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 12/20/2016 at 00:28

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I think those two factors are 90% of it. Try as I might, I couldn’t get the Escape to launch slowly without spinning, which is why I gave up trying and just tried to use speed to get up the hill.

Zibodiz > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/20/2016 at 00:30

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I don’t know about the workings of the diff, but it’s entirely automatic. The only options are ‘4x4’ and ‘auto.’ In either setting, you’ll always have at least one tire on each axle spinning, usually 3 at a time in my experience. At one point in the video, I had a rooster tail on all 4 tires.

Zibodiz > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/20/2016 at 00:30

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I just didn’t reach Escape velocity.

Zibodiz > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 12/20/2016 at 00:33

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I should also point out, though, that the Aerostar does famously in deeper snow, as well. While heading to work today, I traversed 40' of snow that was about 2' deep. The van ‘floated’ sideways through it a bit, but plowed right through. I know from past experience that the Escape wouldn’t have had a prayer of making it. My speed when I hit the drift was only about 25mph (it was right after a tight corner.) I’m a little bit in love with this van.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Zibodiz 12/20/2016 at 00:35

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The trick to keeping moving in snow is always keeping moving. Spinning tires (within reason) to maintain momentum will help, but spinning them to accelerate won’t. I’ve found that if I do have to stop, easing onto the throttle gently (and also off the brake gently in an automatic) will help, also slightly rocking by throttling on and off tends to help. Proper 4x4 systems that are always engaged also are much more helpful than awd systems that don’t engage until they feel slip, because they won’t give you traction until you’ve mostly burned through it, so you just go from spinning two wheels to spinning all four. I don’t know what the Escape’s 4x4 system is like though.

Zibodiz > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/20/2016 at 00:37

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It’s worth noting that the Aerostar weighs 3,478 lbs. The Escape weighs 3,457. In other words, the Aerostar is only 21 Lbs heavier. Both have pretty even weight distribution (thanks to the front axle being so close to the nose on both.) I highly doubt that weight had any effect.

Also, Ford markets the Escape as an SUV, hence why I call it such. IMHO, anything without solid axles is a CUV, but then again, that means that even a Suburban isn’t an SUV anymore.

Gerry197 > Zibodiz 12/20/2016 at 00:52

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What else can it be? Both are all-wheel drive car based vehicles.

Zibodiz > Gerry197 12/20/2016 at 01:25

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Not so. The Aerostar is truck-based. It’s sitting on a chassis, with a longitudinally mounted V6 driving a solid rear axle, and a transfer case that sends power to the front when it needs it. The Escape is just a Mazda6 with a lift kit and AWD.

Gerry197 > Zibodiz 12/20/2016 at 01:46

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Well not exactly, the Aerostar, which I owned myself, was based on a unibody chassis.

Yes a lot of parts came from the Ranger, but I don’t consider it a truck with a unibody.  

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Zibodiz 12/20/2016 at 10:34

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Yeah I was thinking it was FWD, that’s what I was implying about weight distribution. You said it’s sitting on an Explorer frame, I bet it has a drastically better rear diff. Probably an 8.8.

Anything that isn’t Body On Frame I consider a crossover. That’s my definition for SUV vs Crossover. Whether the industry acknowledges it or not is a different story lol, they also routinely slap 4x4 on AWD systems so apparently nothing is sacred.

Zibodiz > Gerry197 12/21/2016 at 03:23

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I can’t see any way you can consider it ‘car based.’ It’s got most of a chassis; it has, to quote Wikipedia, “Full-length integrated frame rails,” which basically means a chassis. It has enough of a chassis that, to work on the engine, they recommend unbolting the body and lifting it off the chassis with the drivetrain left behind. It has nothing in common with unibody car designs (solid rear axle RWD w/ a transfer case, using primarily Ranger & Explorer parts), and being a chassis rather than a unibody, it doesn’t have a big ‘belly pan’ as with modern cars, which means it actually has a lot more clearance than it would appear to have.

Zibodiz > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/21/2016 at 03:40

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I have no idea about the diff, although I’m curious now; I’ll have to do some research. I’ve never really used an Explorer, so I don’t know how they compare.

A lot of classifications that should be technical are meaningless anymore. Heck, my old Jeep was a ‘Wagon’ - just like my Aerostar and my Escort Wagon. But the Escape? It’s an ‘SUV.’ And ditto on the AWD; I’ve heard so many different definitions of AWD, it’s not even funny. I think manufacturers just call stuff whatever’s trendy.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Zibodiz 12/21/2016 at 12:03

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yup, a lot of those don’t have technical definitions or classifications so they just go for it. No one complains (too loudly anyhow).

99% of AWD buyers have no idea how/when it works. Oh well.

Looks like it could have tons of potential gear/diff options. If it has a limited slip 8.8 and 3.55 gears I imagine it would get up a WHOLE LOT easier than an Escape in “4x4".

This website I found has a listing of all the gearing/rear diff options for the Aerostar:

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/axle_codes.shtml

Zibodiz > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 12/21/2016 at 20:58

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Wow, that was incredibly informative. It looks like I actually do have a limited slip with 3.73 gear ratio (code B4.) That must explain part of the great snow handling. Thanks for the education!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Zibodiz 12/22/2016 at 15:24

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Happy to help! It definitely explains the traction capabilities. Gearing and differentials are basically the best improvement you can do (that isn’t tires). This is why it’s on the list for the Rally Capri to get a diff upgrade at some point. I have a LSD but lower gears than you by quite a bit.